Poll #383

They are good idea, but the only good realisation of it is Icebox. While Nebula looks awesome it has too much laders and feels like labirynth. And catwalk is just bad map completely raw.

The only good multi-Z map is tramstation. Maps with >2 z levels are terrible.

Tram works because it feels like the lower z-level is like an 'auxilliary' area, for slightly redudnant areas, maints, and places for nefarious activities.

Also almost all of the main departments are on the main z-level, it gets very confusing when I have to alt-tab to the wiki to check which zlevel robotics is on.

i don't mind them much outside of when it has to many levels or the map is to focused around the two for exemple tram or the old northstar they have multi-z levels but its anoying to be looking for someting for a long time then figuring out that its just on another level that wasn't being shown on the navigation ui. then there is the problem of when part of the station is below a z-level than another wich creates the problem of making a opening into any place below from above using a hole in the floor above

I don't think it works well with the game, it was designed to be 2d and it's too modern of a concept. It is really jarring and makes it hard to track stuff, it doesn't play well and breaks the flow of combat or things happening often along with making it awkward to stop certain things like blobs.

I love multi z maps if they are done right. Thx.

I like them and the more stuff they can include. :)
I wish they were less laggy. :(

icebox good, tram lower levels feels very superfluous, catwalk neat so far

Icebox suffers from all multiz problems because it has dangerous atmosphere, too much surface to repair (3 z level deep station), and is crammed with mining, meaning there will always be randomly generated holes restricting it to a single place.

Tram is the best executed multiz because it doesn't explicitly have undue structural risk attached, with a unbreakable bottom plane + normally stable atmos in the between tram bits. Most of the additions to tram are sympathetic and thoughtful. Catwalk station is not OSHA approved, and is a example that engineering will always be limited to 30 mins to fix a hours long multi-z design problem added on, detracting from anything useful they can build on 1z like a engine vs calling the shuttle. All resource requirements and time commitments are doubled.

Lavaland is the anti-multi-z because it could compliment a multiz up and down with enforcement on the rule that non-built floor turfs don't break easily, simply because its not important to build there.

I enjoy Multi-Z maps conceptually, but in gameplay they can be clunky. Certain scenes like the kitchen, bar or hydroponics being suspended above a hallway - e.g. in Catwalkstation - are peak aesthetically, and giving certain departments more room to work with while simultaneously keeping them somewhat compact is good. However, Multi-Z interactions with atmos can be hard to wrap your head around initially, piping and cabling can be difficult to repair when you have to account for multiple floors, and Multi-Z maps can be hard to navigate especially for newer players or the directionally challenged. I think Multi-Z maps are overall good, but they have many issues that need resolving.

I honestly really enjoy multi z-level maps when they are done well. I feel like the format for them has to really make use of the levels wisely or it will just feel like random filler garbage just to use z-levels. Catwalk Station is an interesting concept but the entire feeling I get from it is to use z-levels as a gimmick rather than a well made station. I really like Icebox for several reasons because I feel like its the best use of z-levels so far. Icebox is very easy to navigate, where very few departments and jobs are too out of the way and hard to locate. Botany has a nice entry location down to the primary workplace, kitchen has the primary workplace at the top and the cold room on the lower floor. Cargo is on the main level and shows an easy entry down to the mining rooms. Nebula Station was really hard to navigate at first but the z-levels are well laid out. The lower z-level is used for secondary parts of a department like, morgue, chem factory, mining dock, security, and chapel. Command/bridge is extremely interesting on Nebula because it has a main entrance into a lower bunker of sorts, where the entire bridge is. All departments with z-levels, are again, showing the entrances to where it leads to. Tram is also the same way, primary departments on top, secondary rooms on the lower level. All current maps that use z-levels have the MAIN floor on TOP and secondary things on the lower floors. Catwalk is the opposite, with the main floor being lower and secondary spots above, but they aren't clearly in view because you would have to use the keybind to look up a level nonstop to see what's above. Northstar was honestly really awesome. At the end of the day the main floor of the station needs to be on the top and secondary stuff lower. There also can't be blind spots to see up or down too much. Catwalk is a manifestation of that EXACT issue.

i just think they're unfun to play on. I dont enjoy them.

i HATE THEM

fine if theres a fun gimmick with them (icebox/catwalk) but mostly i feel like the 2nd level is unneccessary and just makes navigation more difficult.

MultiZ is awkward with combat, especially if there's rapid multiple Z level transitions. Staircases especially are guilty of this. The "look up" feature feels awkward and the default keybind is very bad. Holes are not very visible and falling down from them feels very punishing. On a map like Icebox if there's a bomb or something and you fall down it can mean death which feels really bad. The grappling hook is unintuitive to use and awkward if you don't know exactly where above you is open vs. closed.

Multi-z maps do indeed pose unique challenges. Generally, maps that do choose to use multiple z-levels have a more hostile architecture, such as tramstation's tram, icebox's dangerous icemoon terrain and mobs, etc. There are certain adversities unique to multi-z maps, such as falling into a room that is completely walled off or with no ID access to exit. I can't think of the map name, but there is one that has a trapdoor in medbay that drops to the morgue in a pretty high-traffic area. It also takes more time to perform atmospheric related tasks in particularly tall rooms, or rooms with access to stairwells, since their total volume is larger. Overall, the player experience is considerably more difficult and unforgiving. Personally, I like these unique gameplay challenges, but perhaps I'm more patient and enjoy overcoming anything thrown my way; so long as the aforementioned challenges are engaging in terms of the outlook of Space Station 13's premise, roleplaying, and player involvement. Also, I do enjoy the aesthetics of most multi-z maps, especially Tramstation, with its high-tech and sterile upper floors juxtaposed with the grimy and industrial underpass. There are probably players that want a more streamlined and simpler layout/experience, of which I can sympathize; player-facing threats in-game generated by other players are ones that feel much more authentic. I am largely in favor of the multi-z system itself. It is up to the map to decide how it should wield its power. Feel free to contact me if you have any further inquiries.

Multi Z is often underutilized on most maps, we have no maps in which multiz is more bad than it is good but its often unremarkable. The biggest problem I have is the lack of ways to go up and down in an improvisational sense. Climbing hooks feel like a cop out to more immersive gameplay like climbing on a table or a crate to climb up to the higher z level, and I think these would add a lot to the experience. Especially on maps where the lower level is more of a trap IE: ice box.

I think they're cool but can sometimes have issues with ping/lag. I think it opens up new avenues of gameplay which can be unique but my overall preference is for non multi-z maps like Meta/Delta/Birdshot.

I think they need more stairs because i hate ladders that is all otherwise they're alright i think but also i think we need a shoot up/down zlevel mechanic.

Multi-Z maps are great and the loudest complaints about them will likely come from the same segment of the player-base that will throw a shit-fit any time a map other than Meta is chosen.

I despise them. They are the worst thing that ever happened to tg map design. Words cannot describe how they make me feel. BYOND simply does not handle it well, and any combat around them is unintuitive and horrific to engage in. Construction mechanics being as bad as they are make people and stations unrecoverable. Please, I beg for one z level stations.

They add a bit of variety and more compactness, but fixing atmos problems is a nightmare and they do create an over-dependence on ladders/stairs. Those become frequent choke points for Blobs, since fixing a ladder or stairs is often a nightmare and requires you to be on the same level as the blob, and this leads to a metastrat of spawning on a lower z-level and destroying all the ways down leading to an easy win. A prominent example would be Perma Brig on Ice Box Station. easily 50-75% of blobs spawn down there because there IS no other route than from above due to the plasma river that separates sec from the rest of the station. I could see this becoming even worse on a station like Catwalk, since a vast majority of the floor on the upper z-level is catwalk that is easily destroyed but allows the blob to remain in air.

They can feel a little weird when interacting with a lot of mechanics but they're fun and can make the shape of a room feel a lot more dynamic and interesting! I'd like to see experiments with more of them (even stacked holes), and hope for features to work around them smoother.

No particular issues personally, but a lot of players have said in OOC (for YEARS) that they have varying degrees of lag issues with multi-z, presumably because both BYOND and SS13 are ancient piles of shitty spaghetticode being pushed far beyond what they were ever intended to be.

so basically every time a multi z map is on I'm forced to just have a lot less fun overall
things like fixing departments become incredibly challenging, when in single z it was simple. combat across different z levels is quite miserable in most cases, as you load into the different z you are a sitting target to be stunned and most staircases don't allow immediate vision to what is around them. finally the actual multi z use cases are almost non existent, slicing a department between 2 z levels doesn't add to it and just makes it harder to navigate, very little except tedium stops players from moving machines to more convenient space. as a NEW player i barely understood z levels at all, and the concept of some maps having them and others not is incredibly confusing. I think the issue is; nobody has actually made a good Z level map because z level code isn't good. they hardly interact with eachother; and when they do eg. glass floors; it lags the FUCK out of the server. please consider disabling all or most multiz maps atleast as a trial. i dont like anything about it.

z level map concept is cool but its uncooked and we have way too many of z level maps, which makes gaming actually harder in some gamemodes (especially with blob)

Pretty good.

it never stops feeling like a gimmick

They stretch the map in uneccesary ways, adding additional rooms and corridors, making it more difficult to remember and orient around on the map. Maps like Meta and Delta have a single straight and uninterrupted hallway connecting all of the station, while most of the multi-z level maps make it difficult for the player to find where they want to go. I try to always avoid playing rounds on multi-z level maps, because every time im trying them out I end up getting lost or frustrated at the ammount of uneccesary thing that get in my way. I dont think multi-z level maps add anything good to the game, and would prefer them to be removed.

i love the chaos of randomly seeing a crewmember fall from above, but the layouts get a bit annoying when its dividing every department. OH, and when singulo is on another z level is very cool and scary

i dont mind them when theyre capped at 2 floors

give us more.

This is a 2d game. Trying to give it 3d features like depth is not very smart or enjoyable with respect to functionality. It doesn't help that almost every new map made seems to be multi-z, which means the problems of multi-z abuse continue unabated. The problems in question are players abusing the stair mechanics(running up and down stairs repeatedly to escape pursuers or dodge bullets/lasers in a very lame and gamey way, or smashing the stairs blob style, forcing people to fall down into a pit of blob tiles) and the very poor visibility of non-existent tiles which make you fall into a lower z level(in 3d games the sense of depth makes discerning pitfalls extremely easy, in this game it's difficult to discern which is a real tile and a tile on a lower floor). The most popular maps, Meta and Delta are both only 1 z-level--and that is not a coincidence by any means. Those single z level maps simply function better than multi-z level maps. As a final note: multi-z level xenobiology labs SUCK to use and very often get the xenobiologist ambushed and killed while they're looking on another z level while tending their slimes(as if that occurrence wasn't prevalent enough as it is). TL;DR The whole mechanic just sucks donkey dick; read the whole comment if you want to know why.

I believe multi-z level can work as passageways and helps Antags with hiding, but at the same time they need to be clearly detectable, clearly visible, and more of a transit than a concurred area.

Hi statbus! Heres my opinion on multi-z levels. I think that multi-z levels add a lot of depth, figuratively and literally, to the game and the fun things you can get away with! Though I believe its implementation in most maps isnt very good. a good example is Tramstation. Tramstation has the better implimentation of the map, having the main focus be on the top layer, and the bottom layer for more out fo the way things. I enjoy sec having perma right underneath them and being able to throw things at them, I like the bar and kitchen having to go up and down to botany to gather supplies, I like cargo and minings sections, as well as fitting all of science into two different layers. everything is packaged away in a neat little bow that utilizes the space for whats NEEDED. a bad example would be wawa. WAWA places everything ont he main flow BELOW, and keeps the extras above. I dont think this works out alot, as it just leaves the top sections underutilized and barren. a good example is the medical bay. how many players actually go to the top of medbay now to do anything when most of it is on the lower layer? theres NOTHING even on the top layer for medical to grab, and its mostly forgotten about in that regard. Same with forcing the armory and wardens office ABOVE the security room. its just a messy way of using z-levels for the sake of saying that you used them.

I really don't like multi-Z maps, as it's generally exploited by antagonists, adds elements of confusion when trying to repair atmos, gets people killed as they fall through hard to see holes, and worst of all, it isolates departments from each other even further, reducing the amount of interactions between people.

I think they're cool and very thematic but janky

Very negative, This game does not need z level maps, Lets start one by one with all z level maps. Tram-Classical Mrp map, with annoying maints, and departments that are closed which means zero dep. interaraction, not only that, traveling throught the station without using tram is pain, absolute horror of a map
Icebox- Aight map, but laggy as fuck, and the only reason its aight because it's box station but with two z levels, One z level would be more than enough.
Wawa-This map is ok, But why? Easy, everyone is walking in first z level, and everything is connected there, Which means what? Exactly, that z-levels are useless as hell.
Catwalk-Absolute shit of the map, please delete and what's the funniest, the gimmick of the map is what makes map so unbereabl, borg rcded the second floor which was full of catwalks and it was just so much better, you could walk and use second z level wow.
Nebula-Very bad map, with too much obstacles, stupid maints like in northstar, and on top of that second z level so we could have more of that stupidity.
Anyways, The sad part is that we only have delta and meta as one z level maps, and I'm pretty sure everyone remembers the time when we had normal votes, only maps that were played on high pop was delta and meta. Make more single z level maps and Bring back normal votes please, without stupid random or tallies, it's just making people play shitty maps Because "Oh no, mappers will cry" Who cares about mappers, there is a reason why only delta and meta were played, the reason that mappers cant still understand.

Very negative, This game does not need z level maps, Lets start one by one with all z level maps. Tram-Classical Mrp map, with annoying maints, and departments that are closed which means zero dep. interaraction, not only that, traveling throught the station without using tram is pain, absolute horror of a map
Icebox- Aight map, but laggy as fuck, and the only reason its aight because it's box station but with two z levels, One z level would be more than enough.
Wawa-This map is ok, But why? Easy, everyone is walking in first z level, and everything is connected there, Which means what? Exactly, that z-levels are useless as hell.
Catwalk-Absolute shit of the map, please delete and what's the funniest, the gimmick of the map is what makes map so unbereabl, borg rcded the second floor which was full of catwalks and it was just so much better, you could walk and use second z level wow.
Nebula-Very bad map, with too much obstacles, stupid maints like in northstar, and on top of that second z level so we could have more of that stupidity.
Anyways, The sad part is that we only have delta and meta as one z level maps, and I'm pretty sure everyone remembers the time when we had normal votes, only maps that were played on high pop was delta and meta. Make more single z level maps and Bring back normal votes please, without stupid random or tallies, it's just making people play shitty maps Because "Oh no, mappers will cry" Who cares about mappers, there is a reason why only delta and meta were played, the reason that mappers cant still understand.

Very negative, This game does not need z level maps, Lets start one by one with all z level maps. Tram-Classical Mrp map, with annoying maints, and departments that are closed which means zero dep. interaraction, not only that, traveling throught the station without using tram is pain, absolute horror of a map
Icebox- Aight map, but laggy as fuck, and the only reason its aight because it's box station but with two z levels, One z level would be more than enough.
Wawa-This map is ok, But why? Easy, everyone is walking in first z level, and everything is connected there, Which means what? Exactly, that z-levels are useless as hell.
Catwalk-Absolute shit of the map, please delete and what's the funniest, the gimmick of the map is what makes map so unbereabl, borg rcded the second floor which was full of catwalks and it was just so much better, you could walk and use second z level wow.
Nebula-Very bad map, with too much obstacles, stupid maints like in northstar, and on top of that second z level so we could have more of that stupidity.
Anyways, The sad part is that we only have delta and meta as one z level maps, and I'm pretty sure everyone remembers the time when we had normal votes, only maps that were played on high pop was delta and meta. Make more single z level maps and Bring back normal votes please, without stupid random or tallies, it's just making people play shitty maps Because "Oh no, mappers will cry" Who cares about mappers, there is a reason why only delta and meta were played, the reason that mappers cant still understand.

Very negative, This game does not need z level maps, Lets start one by one with all z level maps. Tram-Classical Mrp map, with annoying maints, and departments that are closed which means zero dep. interaraction, not only that, traveling throught the station without using tram is pain, absolute horror of a map
Icebox- Aight map, but laggy as fuck, and the only reason its aight because it's box station but with two z levels, One z level would be more than enough.
Wawa-This map is ok, But why? Easy, everyone is walking in first z level, and everything is connected there, Which means what? Exactly, that z-levels are useless as hell.
Catwalk-Absolute shit of the map, please delete and what's the funniest, the gimmick of the map is what makes map so unbereabl, borg rcded the second floor which was full of catwalks and it was just so much better, you could walk and use second z level wow.
Nebula-Very bad map, with too much obstacles, stupid maints like in northstar, and on top of that second z level so we could have more of that stupidity.
Anyways, The sad part is that we only have delta and meta as one z level maps, and I'm pretty sure everyone remembers the time when we had normal votes, only maps that were played on high pop was delta and meta. Make more single z level maps and Bring back normal votes please, without stupid random or tallies, it's just making people play shitty maps Because "Oh no, mappers will cry" Who cares about mappers, there is a reason why only delta and meta were played, the reason that mappers cant still understand.

Very negative, This game does not need z level maps, Lets start one by one with all z level maps. Tram-Classical Mrp map, with annoying maints, and departments that are closed which means zero dep. interaraction, not only that, traveling throught the station without using tram is pain, absolute horror of a map
Icebox- Aight map, but laggy as fuck, and the only reason its aight because it's box station but with two z levels, One z level would be more than enough.
Wawa-This map is ok, But why? Easy, everyone is walking in first z level, and everything is connected there, Which means what? Exactly, that z-levels are useless as hell.
Catwalk-Absolute shit of the map, please delete and what's the funniest, the gimmick of the map is what makes map so unbereabl, borg rcded the second floor which was full of catwalks and it was just so much better, you could walk and use second z level wow.
Nebula-Very bad map, with too much obstacles, stupid maints like in northstar, and on top of that second z level so we could have more of that stupidity.
Anyways, The sad part is that we only have delta and meta as one z level maps, and I'm pretty sure everyone remembers the time when we had normal votes, only maps that were played on high pop was delta and meta. Make more single z level maps and Bring back normal votes please, without stupid random or tallies, it's just making people play shitty maps Because "Oh no, mappers will cry" Who cares about mappers, there is a reason why only delta and meta were played, the reason that mappers cant still understand.

Very negative, This game does not need z level maps, Lets start one by one with all z level maps. Tram-Classical Mrp map, with annoying maints, and departments that are closed which means zero dep. interaraction, not only that, traveling throught the station without using tram is pain, absolute horror of a map
Icebox- Aight map, but laggy as fuck, and the only reason its aight because it's box station but with two z levels, One z level would be more than enough.
Wawa-This map is ok, But why? Easy, everyone is walking in first z level, and everything is connected there, Which means what? Exactly, that z-levels are useless as hell.
Catwalk-Absolute shit of the map, please delete and what's the funniest, the gimmick of the map is what makes map so unbereabl, borg rcded the second floor which was full of catwalks and it was just so much better, you could walk and use second z level wow.
Nebula-Very bad map, with too much obstacles, stupid maints like in northstar, and on top of that second z level so we could have more of that stupidity.
Anyways, The sad part is that we only have delta and meta as one z level maps, and I'm pretty sure everyone remembers the time when we had normal votes, only maps that were played on high pop was delta and meta. Make more single z level maps and Bring back normal votes please, without stupid random or tallies, it's just making people play shitty maps Because "Oh no, mappers will cry" Who cares about mappers, there is a reason why only delta and meta were played, the reason that mappers cant still understand.

They are often great (ice box, tram)

im not a fan. the fact that you can cheese fights by going up/down is alone making those map less playable. when its dark you can easily just fall down and get stuck forever which is also anticlimactic.

While I like the concept of multi-z, I feel like it just doesn't work well in enough situations for me not to be a fan of it overall. Space combat is already awful with how fast everyone moves, throwing an additional dimension of movement on just makes it even worse. Even without space, combat across z-levels can be awful when they move back and forth across the threshold, and especially when the ability to move across z-levels is sabotaged such as in cases of blobs destroying stairs. I'm also not a fan of atmospheric changes across z-levels, with it being pretty unenjoyable when a space breach occurred a z-level away and is a lot harder to find as a result. Icebox feels especially bad with this. Finally, I really don't like how uninteractive it is to deal with the z-level above you. The only way to look up is pressing a hotkey that almost no one uses as far as I'm aware, and there is no indicator that there's any reason to look up and use it. There could be a massive hole in the ceiling and you just won't have any reason to look up and notice it. Even if you did notice it you have no way to fix it without making your way up to the z-level. I've seen this result in people making a room to contain some kind of gas only for the gas to just flow over the walls because it has no ceiling.

tl;dr - cool concept, too janky, doesn't work well with other systems we have

Meh, they tend to be laggier than single z maps

I'm not against them, but a few mechanics work rather unfortunately with them. That said, I think having multi-z can be a benefit if the ability to travel between them can be efficient.

For example, on Catwalk Station the Medical lathe is placed in a room that makes aesthetic sense. There are no mechanical issues. However, a gameplay issue arises when medical starts becoming busy with organ replacements. Having to walk from the surgical theatre upstairs and through two sets of doors to reach the lathe and down again adds a lot of travel time to the surgical procedure.

This could be alleviated by having a direct path from the surgical theatre to the lathe as in both Delta and Meta stations, the lathe is one room away from stasis/surgical tables.

Cheers!

i love em huge fan of how for example ice box station utlilises it for salvage and the detail on nebula station is unmatched yes its definetly confusing for new players but they are so dope to play on once you know the layout

Shit like Nebula station and Northstar is just cringe

overengineering isn't even the best course action.

It's too much

yea don't mind them

i don't have a lot to say about them but i figured i should pad out the poll to account for the vocal minority of lameos who have strong opinions against z levels and cannot resist any chance to bitch about them

they're fine. i like making traps where some schmuck falls four floors. i miss northstar because you could slip a man and send him down six stories. no notes.

Only problem is it sometimes lags when going through stairs.


Also having to go to IC tab and press go up or go down is annoying and a Keybind should be a thing


otherwise its cool

quite fun but can be confusing at times

only icebox good z levvel map

icebox good rest bad :middle finger:

they go against the flow of navigation and the game, icebox and tram are the only good ones cause they dont force the fact they are multi z down your throat

only good when they allow me to break into sec and comms c:

otherwise pretty bad both in terms of navigation and performance

Goofy and fun to repair and run around

Generally pretty okay with them but it makes it impossible to fight blobs or find the nuclear disk in any reasonable time during emergencies which really sucks

I'm fine with them, as long as there is good signage and a clear layout. For example, I find the 3-level map on Aurorastation to be really clear and comfortable.

i think 2 z levels is fine, but anything more than that is a pain to work with. engineering, atmos and chem factories are kinda a huge pain on multiz maps, not to mention blob is a little funky on them too, but i don't really mind them too much as long as it's only 2 levels, especially since mutltiz can have some pretty interesting gimmicks if you work around it right

it alright

Pretty much all the maps that have used Multi z have been poorly made. Icebox suffers the most since that map originally wasn't made with multi z in mind at all. SS13 as a whole just sucks when it comes to most multi z interactions. Unfortunately we aren't a 3d game and looking up or down as well as interacting between two different levels will always feel clunky and poor. The most obvious of this is whenever fights happen at stairs. The running up and down of both parties on the stairs feels extremely poor.

The only major good thing I can think of for multi z is when maps actually make multi z feel cool. Having a head of staff office overlook a department is a really cool thing I don't see enough of when these maps are designed. Things like that make multi z good.

I don't like them. They are cool in theory, but in practice it often results in lots of annoyance.

When blob, xeno, spiders, etc occur one of the first things done is that stairs get sniped. This means that suddenly you can't get to them. At least with things like Xeno spacewalking it is an ability you can work around. With stairs getting sniped it often leads to "welp I guess I can't fight them now, cool."

Maps are often broken up in seemingly arbitrary ways which can lead to further annoyance. The only station I ever felt like handled it somewhat logically was NorthStar (may it rest in peace). The maps with z-levels that I enjoy the most are ironically enough the ones that utilize z-levels the least (such as icebox)

i love multi z level maps but if its TRAM THE GOD DAMN TRAM MAP i hate it

They are generally really good, but my only issue is that most antagonists do not interact with multi-z correctly, such as blobs destroying stairs or being nearly impossible to take of.

meh

cool maps,can farm athletics in 10 minutes
livrah
icebox suck

I like the amount of detail multi Z maps allow. It also feels nice to have departments with a smaller footprint on some maps due to verticality.

I find them interesting, but I think they should be limited to a max of 2 or 3 levels. Any more and things tend to get confusing as to where things are etc

Im really positive about it and i would like more multi z maps

Im really positive about it and i would like more multi z maps

Im really positive about it and i would like more multi z maps

Im really positive about it and i would like more multi z maps

Im really positive about it and i would like more multi z maps

Im really positive about it and i would like more multi z maps

Im really positive about it and i would like more multi z maps

One time when I was in 3rd grade, I gave a kid that I knew had a peanut allergy a peanut butter sandwich and he had to go to the ER. I didn't see him at my school afterwards so I think he died

2 levels is enough, i like it

lag when moving between layers(even if its just 1 seconds, its more than enough for person on other layer to shove stun/batong you or do something else)

strange advantage of being on the upper layer??? like you can always see everything happening on lower layer. you can use previous thing here (stun/shove people who try to move up, because you can see move them on stairs and they can't see you). while technically you CAN see what people on upper layers are doing(using look up hotkey) its still worse than being able to see what happens below you all the time.

delay when moving between layers in no grav :reallymad:, at least make it non-interruptable by movement

multi-z xenobio :reallymad: i hate moving camera up and down

i like banana

It's alright, may be daunting for newer players.

i prefer 1 level, but i dont reaaly hate the multi z ones when done right, lots of gimmick potential, with rcd and stuff

Its been neat, though frustrating when the gravity is out. Also needs more signage for department locations.

2 floors maximum, make them interconnect seamlessly (both in and out of maints). Separated areas, maints etc = bad.

I don't like it in general, too confusing at times, the high ground is real

The only way to make z-level maps legit for me - is to make them simple. Tram would be a good example. Most of departments are placed on a single floor (security and science would be an exception, but they are located at the edge of a map so that's not a big deal; also service is kinda dissolved, but that's not a big deal either), and overall access to the lower z-level is simple to the point where you just need to fall under the tram :P Wawa and Nebula on the other hand are both bad examples. Practically all departments are multi-z, which makes them less fun to manage.

They provide complexity to maps, allowing to stuff more to fit in less space. It's a bit anoying that only the upper Z level can see the lower one, but otherwise it is a welcome adition.

I love how it feels like a real place not just a- Doom map or something. I just wish damage translated better.

They are fine to a certain degreee - icebox does them the best. They shoudlnt increase the availble station area 2x like nebula does (i like nebula still), while making half of that area gas,vine,blob and explosion proof. If multi-z gets upgraded in the future, by adding explosion and gas interacts it will be fine, rn its fully seperate 2 layers connected by a funny teleport

Just the icebox and WAWA, the rest is just garbage.

Spacious. Quite too much spacious. Very inconvenient, especially for xenobio. More potential than single-level, harder to play.

Our maps don't explore enough with the concept and mostly feel like they're just slapped on. Movement and use of the mechanics don't feel satisfying on multiz maps. Z levels are not really used in interesting ways. Icebox was much more interesting when mobs could break into the lower floor. Tram ruins its whole concept since the undertram is decidedly NOT dangerous. Nebula has ghost town syndrome where it's so enormous you don't see other people. Wawa seems to only use multiz for secondary departments or side content.

I think having more layers is a large boon to creativity. The only issues I've ever personally run into is telegraphing holes, but much progress has been made on that front.

All in all my preferred maps are single Z. Tram is the exception. Icebox is more failed by planetary gameplay which i will soon write about on the forums at length along with my awesome fucking FEATURE solution :)

i've always been a fan of absolutely fucking massive maps so multiz has always been similarly awesome

Multi-Z maps are great. They allow a station to have that extra space that a single-Z map wouldn't be able to provide.

Additionally, it provides opportunity for a department or room to be larger while taking up a somewhat smaller area space, merely by having it go through another floor.

There are still some challenges however; Repairs can be complex as you have to account for the other floors and how things connect with each other; Certain antagonists (such as Cult or a blob) are often difficult to combat as you have multiple floors that you have to go through, or large amounts of space to watch. (Which is difficult when security is often understaffed, or just not enough.)

Some game mechanics (Such as the singularity or tesla) do not work smoothly with the extra floor. In the case of a singularity, it eats away one entire Z level, but leaves others unscathed.

eh sure whatever

LOVE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO LOVE MULTI-Z MAPS SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD LOVE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE LOVE I FEEL FOR MULTI-Z MAPS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. LOVE. LOVE.

:(

I FUCKING LOVE INFINI MULTI Z MAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tram is awesome. Icebox is frustrating. Nebula was confusing for finding the evac shuttle dock. Generally I think that lower Z-levels should always be equally or more safe than the one someone falls from, otherwise it's a spontaneous death that feels disappointing since it's environmental rather than from player interaction.

I don't like them because of the fights on the stairs, when you get caught on the way up, not giving you time to react because of lags, black screen or just because the enemy above you saw you going up, but you didn't see them from below

Too many of them.Try making ORIGINAL! GOOD! NORMAL! maps.

NOT GOOD
expect icebox

Too many of them.Try making ORIGINAL! GOOD! NORMAL! maps.

i like them, i find the trapdoors really fucking funny

i hate floors

They are good, but the glitches that come with them can be very problematic at times, such as major lag spikes when changing z levels or glitches with things such as disguses or abductor camo

falling through near invisible holes in the floor is really annoying

Love them. I miss the Northstar. I do feel bad for performance others have apparently, but I didn't have performance issues.

I love how it adds more area to a map, one thing i dislike though is how hard it is to see the level differences, I fell down countless times because I couldnt see that it went down a whole level

They are nice, and can add some much needed verity to the rounds. However, falling can get slightly annoying - especially because the default hook has only like 3 uses.

They are nice, and can add some much needed verity to the rounds. However, falling can get slightly annoying - especially because the default hook has only like 3 uses.

I think they're really good but have some significant performance issues and bugs that need to be ironed out.

they are cool and make sense.. if a space station is as luxurious to have plants and multiple departments.. it'll have stairs and ladders.

The aspect of multiz maps that I enjoy is that it allows for more novel navigation of the maps space and more creative design. Not everything need be lumped into the same level of the map. And going up and down in a map is really enjoyable.

The aspect I dislike is how separated the z-levels can feel from one another rather than vertical from one another. It does feel like they still come with the problems of being separate z-levels despite all the interesting navigation parts.

I LOVE THEM

theyre very cool, parallax is also very cool

the problems are blobs abusing stair bottlenecks, and pinpointers still not working properly when the target is on another floor, youd think it would still point but also indicate up or down somewhere on the screen or something

if those got fixed then multi z would be even better

A lot of the time they are pretty difficult to navigate - As someone that uses the pathfinder thing on new maps - they're still cool when they don't release with a bajillion problems though

mostly poorly realized, tram if fine however

>:( no likey too laggey

BAD

One of the worst shit in the game

In my opinion, they can get kind of confusing, you never know how to reach places, so i dislike them

I like them

They're conceptually cool and add a lot of depth to gameplay, but our implementation of them needs to be comprehensively improved.

Having only 2 Z-Levels is alright. But the departments should take care to keep the subdepartments on 1 level, for example xeno is horrible on multi-z level setups. Other than that they're neat and provide more real estate for maints and other fun stuff!

bleh

I like some of the iterations of multi-z maps. I think two levels is more than enough. That said, there are a lot of problems in edge cases, such as blobs, where there are tactics on either side of the equation that are extremely difficult to deal with. I also enjoy the Charlie Station ghost role, and do have a bias against stations that lock that spawn out of rotation.

LOVE, NEED MORE!!!

fucking dogshit

I very much enjoy multi z-level maps. I feel as though there being another floor makes the map feel like it has more depth and can make each department feel more large and unique since its basically two maps layered on top of each other. I also think it can lead to very funny situations, like throwing things (including people) from higher floors to lower ones and causing chaos this way.

Multi-Z maps are great for immersion and can look extremely pretty, with I think the only downside being navigation on each new map or ruin to include it. I think more rooms should have navigation options in the "navigate" menu, and moreover it would be nice if the navigate command was accurate between all Z levels instead of requiring being on the Z level that has the location you're headed towards.

I also wish multi-Zs made use of their Z levels mechanically more often; I think we should see less departments that are split for the sake of being split and see more ladders, options to hop down, even some kind of climbing mechanic (only top>bottom duh) a la the medieval servers would be pretty nifty. As it stands it's kind of a hassle to get anywhere or make use of the Z levels in an interesting way if there aren't any openings or stairs to find.

Lastly I think some more optimization for huge maps (see: what was Northstar) should be taken into consideration so we can set a precedent of being able to make huge maps that look good for funsies.

The idea of running distracted through a hallway just to fall down two floors is, undeniably, funny, and serves as something that would likely happen due to, well... Physics.

Buuut, I think there should be more multi-level interactions from time to time, eg: Powerful bomb knocks off a few tiles from the floors above and below, or stuff like that

My general feeling is positive though :>

i like

Icebox is awesome 9.5/10. -0.5 for ordnance bombs falling down a zlevel.
Tram is mid 6/10. Maints feel empty -2. Maints provide almost no connection between departaments and have one way mulebot delivery entrance -2.
Nebula is bad 5/10. I HATE FAKE STAIRS. They are very confusing and almost indistinguishable from REAL stairs -4. It is very easy to get stuck in random, hard to see railings -2. It is not on webmaps site -1. VISUALLY looks very good with a lot of cool tiny stuff +2.
Wawa is ok 8/10. Big, but kinda empty maints -2.
Catwalk is ok 8/10. Good maints. It is not on webmaps site -1. Random small bugs due to being new map -1.
In general multi-z maps are good if done right. Grave sins of multi-z maps:

1. Fake stairs.
   

lag

I like them, mainly for how many unique situations require allowing someone to be above/below something (I.E dropping someone down a hole, breaking in through space via the roof, so on). However a lot of people lag like hell for them, so i get why theyre uncommon.

Feels like a majority of Z level maps are overly confusing to navigate. It could be done better.

Unintuitive when you want to build airtight rooms, abusable when you want to avoid getting hit (staircases can be traversed immediately and disregard if anyone is in your way), open spaces also not that apparent so you fall down very often

Not a fan of anything past 2